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NUNO SOUSA

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Programmer, Gamer, Apple fan and all-around tech geek.
Articles Posted: 4  Links Seeded: 0
Member Since: 1/2006  Last Seen: 8/15/2007

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How Time Machine might work

Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:49 PM EDT
technology, apple, osx, leopard, time-machine
By Nuno Sousa
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Apple has unveiled their backup solution called Time Machine. While it does look very promising, I find myself wondering how it would actually work.

I'm gonna go all Sherlock Holmes over here so bare with me.

Time Machine needs a mounted external hard-drive or server share to back up your data. It would be reasonable to assume that the system keeps a database of the backed up files somewhere so that you can look for a file but when it comes to actually restoring it, you'll need to plug in that external hard-drive/server.

Apple has a huge notebook market so I'm assuming Time Machine was designed thinking of mobility. Therefore, if you're out on the road, it probably keeps a temporary backup of all your changes so it can synchronize when you next plug in your hard-drive/server.
A nice addition to this would be to support backing up to DVD's. The system would tell you when you have enough files to fill a DVD. When you attempted to restore a file, it would ask you to insert the appropriate DVD. (from the sneak peak website it seems this isn't going to happen, though)

They tell us that Time Machine backs up everything. It also only saves changes between files. What about data such as video, audio, etc? If you rip a DVD, burn it and delete it, did Time Machine back up that 4.3GB of data? Just imagine the amount of space you'd need. Therefore I must assume that they include a system preference where you can define exceptions such as "files over 4GB" or "files with extension mp3", etc.

Let's say you have a big video file that you want to compress into 15MB chunks so you can upload it to an FTP server. Your software would quickly start generating these 15MB files. After each one is done, Time Machine would most likely start backing it up. This would slow down your compression imensely so I would have to assume that Apple will provide us with a way to manually initiate the backup process.

That's all I can think of for now. I hope you enjoyed my predictions.

Oh! One more thing... did you notice in the keynote whenever Time Machine was activated, it would stutter for a few milliseconds? They launched Safari, Mail and iPhoto like it was nothing and Time Machine visually hung for just a moment. That worries me.
When things are slow in a keynote, they're usually painstakingly slow on your Apple Hardware.

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  • Public Discussion (31)
Alec Ananian

"Bare" with you?!?! What do you think this is... Nudevine?!

Aside from the obscenity, great analysis of how Time Machine might work. It seems like a very interesting method of backing up data and I'd love to see if your predictions are true.

  • 6 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Aug 9, 2006 6:58 PM EDT
accordingtome

haha Nudevine, thats good...

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Wed Aug 9, 2006 11:43 PM EDT
Nuno Sousa

Hehe yeah, sorry about that typo. I guess I'll leave it there for comedy value now :)

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:49 AM EDT
Reply
Paradox460

Time machine seems to be one of the most promising new technologies of the next computers, but one thing has me off balance. This is the second application apple has created that abandons their old GUI and takes up the full screen. Could this be a sign of whats next, an os that abandons all the things that oses have today, and works more like the menus on a 360?

  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Wed Aug 9, 2006 7:12 PM EDT
Jason Newton

Time Machine is definitely the most interesting thing on Leopard (that we know of) but I agree with you that there are a lot of questions that will eventually need answering.
Looking forward to seeing it in action.

    Reply#3 - Wed Aug 9, 2006 7:36 PM EDT
    Justin Thornton

    I think you can use the use some of the features without a external hard drive, I beleave it can use the local hardrive to backup deleted files if you want it to, so you can go back in time to get it back. But I may be wrong.

      Reply#4 - Wed Aug 9, 2006 11:41 PM EDT
      Nycam

      Is it possible that time machine would require a .mac subscription, and the datum would be stored remotely?

        #4.1 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:13 PM EDT
        Elliot Vos

        Require? No. Not possible. All of the information on the sneak preview website says that it works with an external hard drive. However, that may be an option. Yet, I don't think that's too feasible.. With the amount of data that has to be available on demand, it would be tough to put that all on Apple's servers.

          #4.2 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:04 PM EDT
          Nycam

          But what about the Morlocks? *shudder*

          • 3 votes
          #4.3 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:32 PM EDT
          Reply
          Jeremy G.

          I too am wondering how Time Machine will work. Backing up an entire system would obviously require a ton a storage space. I don't want my internal drive capacity to get chewed up, but I also don't want to have to buy an external drive. It will be interesting to to see there solution.
          I'm not too worried about the lag during the keynote, at best it is in an early Alpha so they've got plenty of time to optimize it.

            Reply#5 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:40 AM EDT
            Faruk Ates

            It's either a local or an external hard drive, but no mention of DVD backup (as that doesn't really work well or even at all with versioning, which is what Time Machine does).

              Reply#6 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:53 AM EDT
              Nuno Sousa

              I don't see why not. Time Machine could just calculate when you have 4.3GB worth of older revisions and allow them to be burnt on a DVD.

                #6.1 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:46 AM EDT
                Faruk Ates

                Revisions become a horrible mess when you can't check with the previous revision. With DVD's, you would HAVE to keep your last DVD in your drive AT ALL TIMES or else the revisioning system goes nuts and messes up. This isn't possible to avoid (other than simply halting the revisioning system once the DVD leaves the drive) and thus is not much of a feasible option.

                Apple makes things easy to use for average consumers. Having to explain to them how versioning systems work and that they thus MUST keep their last DVD backup in the drive, is not easy to use. Hell, it's a horrible plan to begin with.

                  #6.2 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:17 PM EDT
                  Brian Ford

                  Honestly -- time machine works fine for me with most of my files. Assuming I have a big enough Ext. HD -- it will be a great solution.

                  I -would- still like a button in iTunes and iPhoto though:

                  "Burn Library to DVD"

                  Which would then prompt me to insert DVDs until my entire music and/or photo collection was backed up across a set of media. A bonus would be to name the DVD automatically: Ant, Adam - Mellencamp, John (for Disc 1) and Newton-John, Olivia - Zevon, Warren (for Disc 2).

                  (For what it's worth, I only own music from one of those examples -- I'm from Indiana so I'll let you guess which.)

                  • 1 vote
                  #6.3 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:45 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  Dr Juice

                  So it's essentially Apple's own, internally developed CVS system?

                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#7 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:38 AM EDT
                  Damascus

                  This was exactly my thought.

                  • 1 vote
                  #7.1 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:45 AM EDT
                  Nuno Sousa

                  It might also be Subversion itself. It seems it will be shipped by default on Leopard. Most likely not, though.

                    #7.2 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:45 AM EDT
                    Vulgrin

                    Subversion would be my logical choice. In fact, I've had this for several years now for all of my "important" data. I also back up and compress my Subversion repository every night over to another machine for extra safety.

                    This really isn't rocket science - they've just ungeeked the interface.

                    • 1 vote
                    #7.3 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:24 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    Brad Leclerc

                    Damn, I was hoping for crazy discussions of temporal paradoxes, relativity, quantum mechanics, tachyons, and assorted other interesting time travel based fun.....not backup software! Damn you apple!

                    Nice article though :D

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#8 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:57 AM EDT
                    Walt D

                    Damn, I was hoping for crazy discussions of temporal paradoxes, relativity, quantum mechanics, tachyons, and assorted other interesting time travel based fun.....not backup software!

                    Me too. I needed a distraction from the unsettling news of the day. Curse you geeks with your new-fangled, high-falutin' instruments of the devil!

                    • 2 votes
                    #8.1 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:43 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    Elliot Vos

                    From the sneak peak website:

                    Time Machine works great out of the box, but you can customize it by modifying the following behaviors in System Preferences:

                    • Backup Disk: Change the drive or volume you're backing up to. Or back up to a Mac OS X server computer.
                    • Do Not Backup: By default, Time Machine backs up your entire system. But you can also select items you'd rather not back up.
                    • Backup Time: Time Machine will back up every night at midnight, unless you select a different time from this menu.

                    There's your

                    system preference where you can define exceptions such as "files over 4GB" or "files with extension mp3", etc.

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#9 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:01 AM EDT
                    Nuno Sousa

                    Oh, I missed that one completely. Great info. Thanks!

                      #9.1 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:44 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      Elliot Vos

                      Sorry for the double post, but I just thought of this.

                      I wonder if you could even backup to another partition on the same drive. Obviously, this wouldn't do anything for a drive failure, but it would still work for the "OMG WHERE'S MY PRESENTATION?!" syndrome they were promoting it for.

                        Reply#10 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:03 AM EDT
                        Nuno Sousa

                        That would of course cut your hard-drive in half at least. Remember you need at least the same amount of space as your files occupy. Of course you won't get anywhere unless you have a lot more.

                          #10.1 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:43 AM EDT
                          Elliot Vos

                          Hmm.. good point.

                          Unless you choose to only back up certain folders...

                            #10.2 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:07 PM EDT
                            icarus4586

                            If this is being targeted to smallish documents, presentations and the like, it would make sense that compression would be used. Anything that's predominantly text can usually be compressed fairly quickly, and often to less than 10% of its original size. That would certainly help in this scenario.

                              #10.3 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:56 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              icarus4586

                              Oh! One more thing... did you notice in the keynote whenever Time Machine was activated, it would stutter for a few milliseconds? They launched Safari, Mail and iPhoto like it was nothing and Time Machine visually hung for just a moment. That worries me.
                              When things are slow in a keynote, they're usually painstakingly slow on your Apple Hardware.

                              I'd think that this is due to the fact that Time Machine's not completely finished yet. It's a completely new application, unlike Safari, Mail and iPhoto, so it's likely that the team still has a few things to clean up before the final release. At least I hope that's the case.

                                Reply#11 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:50 PM EDT
                                Elliot Vos

                                I think & hope so too. I mean, it crashed iPhoto... they'll probably get it working a little better before they ship. I mean, they're not Microsoft, they do know how to fix bugs.

                                  #11.1 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:56 PM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  John Whittet

                                  I'm not sure how accurate your predictions are going to be, from what I've read.

                                  1. I've read nothing about "local" browsing without the external drive, and my guess would be that maintaining a mirror of the Time Machine files database on your main HDD wouldn't be included. After all, if you look at some of the screenshots, they include icons, specifically custom picture icons, that would take up more space on the local drive. My guess is that if you launch the application without your backup drive mounted, that it will throw an error and ask you to mount it. (Or a more elegant solution.)
                                  2. I would also imagine that maintaining daily backups without the backup drive would simply not happen. (See Faruk's comment on old revisions.) I imagine that backups will only occur when the backup drive is mounted. In other words, you're SOL on the road.
                                  3. The DVD issue has already been discussed, though would be nice.
                                  4. The key point on your "rip, burn, delete" example is that Time Machine backs up at a specific time every night (like midnight). So doing work during the day won't cause any huge files to be backed up. This is a good reason to set your backup time to something obscure, like 4:00 am.

                                  And one more response...

                                  If this is being targeted to smallish documents, presentations and the like, it would make sense that compression would be used. Anything that's predominantly text can usually be compressed fairly quickly, and often to less than 10% of its original size. That would certainly help in this scenario.

                                  However, we know for a fact that Apple's also targeting "priceless digital photos, music, [and] movies" (source). I'm not sure if compression would be used, especially seeing how Time Machine works by showing you the exact contents of a folder one right after another. That would be a lot of decompression to a temp folder, deletetion, rinse, repeat.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  Reply#12 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:42 PM EDT
                                  Nuno Sousa

                                  Great post.

                                  1) I really hope they seriously consider having a local database. Even if they don't cache the icons! (which btw, would only be custom icons). If I'm on the road, even if I can't access the files because I didn't bring my external HD, I'd like to at least look around my system to make sure it is there.

                                  4) I'd just like to say that I hope they will allow us to manually initiate the backup (or at least ask us if we miss the scheduled backup) because seeing as I have a laptop I miss out on many of the default Mac OS X cron jobs.
                                  I really hope they consider people who don't have their computer on all the time.

                                    #12.1 - Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:32 PM EDT
                                    John Whittet

                                    I'd just like to say that I hope they will allow us to manually initiate the backup (or at least ask us if we miss the scheduled backup) because seeing as I have a laptop I miss out on many of the default Mac OS X cron jobs.

                                    I meant to mention that, as I think it would be a really good idea. I'm thinking toolbar icon next to the clock...

                                      #12.2 - Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:46 AM EDT
                                      Reply
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